In the long path to reaching gender equality, there’s no single tool that will help women achieve equality with men. For Isabelle Hoyer, the co-founder of one of Germany’s largest female professional networks, it was clear how she wanted to empower women — by offering community. Her version, PANDA Network, was founded on the premise that actual pandas are as rare as women leaders in Germany.
In its 11 years of existence, PANDA has developed into a powerful network of thousands of women leaders in the German-speaking world. With the aim of women holding 50% of leadership roles in business and society, PANDA provides women with more chances of getting into management positions via events, mutual support, opportunities for professional development, and more.
We spoke to Isabelle Hoyer about women in the world of work and in leadership positions, and on her journey building PANDA. Hoyer, who grew up in Eastern Germany (under both a divided and united Germany) studied communication sciences and Russian after graduating from high school. During her studies she had two children and started her career in a management consultancy. As the only woman and mother on the team, she quickly became the contact person for women at her former employer.
Despite all the difficulties that women face in the world of work then and now, we think it is important to approach change optimistically and actively. We are a forum for women in leadership positions — although they are as rare as actual pandas in Germany, they are at least not threatened with extinction.
Isabelle, in the early 2000s you spent seven years advising companies on human resources development at a centre of excellence for managers. How did you feel about the situation of women back then?
As a woman who comes from eastern Germany, it was natural for me to have children early, take care of them, and have a professional life at the same time. That’s what my mother and grandmother showed me and I grew up in that environment. When I started to work in human resources development, the topic of “barriers for women in the world of work” was something of an awakening for me. As an East German, I wasn’t at all aware of this because it was normal to combine children and work. When I came into contact with women in Germany, I learned for the first time how difficult it can be for us. It wasn’t easy to hear from other women about how they were treated in meetings or during salary negotiations, overlooked for promotions, or pressured after returning from maternity leave.
Was that the reason for founding PANDA?
In a way. After raising awareness of the topic, recognition followed for me. And then a little outrage that we still have to talk about this topic. However, PANDA was founded to create positivity. On my first day of an internship at a management consultancy, I met Stuart Cameron, now head of the LGBT network Uhlala Group in Berlin. Our common goal was to create an event format that contributes to the empowerment of women in the world of work and to change in society. At that time, the need for support for women was already very high and companies asked themselves how they could bring and support qualified women into management responsibility. Our goal was to change something in the company and build bridges.
In 2013 the time had come and the first PANDA event took place. What was it like for you to suddenly be a co-founder?
That time was very stressful, but also enriching. In addition to our jobs, we started this adventure with practically zero euros. From the start, we knew that our network would only last if we managed to get companies on board from day 1. The first event was a success, with 100 women taking part. We then planned, carried out and observed for over 3 years. After three years the question arose: do we dare to turn it into a company? The answer was “yes” and we founded a GmbH, with me as managing director and sole employee.
Programmes like the ESCP Berlin Women in Leadership seminar, for example, are incredibly important in imparting skills and knowledge. Its strength lies in raising public awareness, empowering women in their decisions, creating connections between women and a space to belong to them.
Today, 10 years after your first event, PANDA GmbH has 12 employees and 3,700 top-class members from German-speaking countries. What still makes the network special today?
Despite all the difficulties that women face in the world of work then and now, we think it is important to approach change optimistically and actively. We are a forum for women in leadership positions — although they are as rare as actual pandas in Germany, they are at least not threatened with extinction. We want to connect these well-trained and positive women leaders with each other for exchange, for networking, for new ideas and further development.
How do you think educational institutions like ESCP can support women on their way to leadership positions?
I have to go back a little on this. The vision at PANDA is that women make up 50% of managers. In Germany the path to get there is incredibly slow. After years of discussion, the proportion of women in leadership positions is still just under 30% and is, in some cases, even declining. At the same time, there are many gender gaps and an extremely unequal distribution of care work. Personally, I consider this to be a disgrace for Germany. The measures to reduce this inequality are still very much shifted to the individual, i.e. every single woman, who constantly has to step on the gas herself. In my view, this is a flaw in the system and the politicians and institutions are responsible. Rather, work needs to be done on the legal and social infrastructure, from women’s quotas to child care and parental leave.
Programmes like the ESCP Berlin Women in Leadership seminar, for example, are incredibly important in imparting skills and knowledge. Its strength lies in raising public awareness, empowering women in their decisions, creating connections between women and a space to belong to them. This allows imbalances to be balanced. The more of these spaces and networks we provide for women, the better.
We touched on it briefly in the context of the political framework — what is your stance on the issue of women’s quotas?
This often involves the issue of qualifications and the question of whether a potentially less qualified woman is being placed in a position that she does not deserve based on her perceived performance. It is often overlooked that stereotypes, social role models, etc., influence the status quo of women.
The ideal environment would, of course, be one in which gender plays no role. A much more effective quota would be one that’s passed as a temporary instrument, i.e. a quota law, in order to create pressure for companies to act. However, a quota should be one tool among many.
Equality is a long and difficult road. If we look at the forecasts and focus on how long and rocky it will be, we won’t be helped…If we all take action ourselves, in the way we can, we will reach a common goal more quickly.
How do you think the situation for working women has changed in the last 10 years?
In my opinion, access to education and networks, origin and social classes have a much greater influence than belonging to a particular generation. Many of my observations are two-fold. On one hand, there is greater self-confidence today and it is now more natural for women to be leaders. Opportunities and windows of opportunity have increased. Individual people or industries have become much more visible.
At the same time, the normality of balancing family, work and leisure time is changing. Here I see a downward trend, perhaps due to the fatigue, discouragement and enormous exhaustion of women who toil away and do not make progress.
What message would you like to give to our readers?
Equality is a long and difficult road. If we look at the forecasts and focus on how long and rocky it will be, we won’t be helped. So let’s all become designers ourselves! Our PANDA network wants to encourage this because there are women leaders who show and live this. If we all take action ourselves, in the way we can, we will reach a common goal more quickly.
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